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Witness Name: Chris Gilding
Statement No.: WITN05380100
Exhibits:
Dated: TH. Dec. \ p Deady
POST OFFICE HORIZON IT INQUIRY
FIRST WITNESS STATEMENT OF CHRIS GILDING
General
A brief professional background.
1.
Joined Post Office in August 1977 as a Crown Office Counter Clerk, promoted
to Assistant Branch Manager.
Reserve Regional Trainer delivering 6-week classroom induction courses from
late 1980's to 1992
1992 — 2009, 27 years Crown Branch Manager at various branches across
Hampshire
2009 joined Network Support as a Field Team Leader (FTL) managing team of
multiskilled trainers and auditors
Approx. 2013 — 2015 2 years secondment to Horizon Mediation Investigation
Team,
Returned to FTL role after secondment, took voluntary redundancy in
September 2016.
Using the Horizon IT System in the course of my work.
7.
I was working as a Crown Branch Manager when Horizon was first introduced
to the POL Network.
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As FTL I used Horizon (a) during training events (b) during branch audits at all
types of offices across the network, and (c) in office visits assisting Postmasters
to investigate Horizon data for balance enquiry purposes
My roles in relation to the Horizon IT System.
Branch Manager, Training and Audit Manager, Horizon Mediation Team Leader
Your role(s) in relation to training
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My first role as a Trainer was in the mid-1980s, when I applied for the role of
Reserve Training Instructor. This was pre-iT so all accounting was in the form
of manual paper based records. I delivered classroom induction courses for
new entrants, both Crown Office clerks and newly appointed Subpostmasters.
There were a few Subpostmasters’ assistants on these courses but the
contractual onus was for Subpostmasters to train their own staff and the cost of
staff attending a 6 week classroom course was a barrier to most
Subpostmasters.
I re-joined the training team in 2009 as part of the rollout of the WH Smith
(WHS) programme, whereby WHS were taking over the running of
approximately 70 crown branches nationwide. Initially I oversaw the on-site
training for the first 2 weeks of go-live at several branches in the south.
Following the WHS initial rollout I applied and was appointed to the FTL role.
The structure of the national training team had changed and was now under the
umbrella of Network Support.
One aspect of this role was to oversee all training including Horizon, delivered
by my team.
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When I became a trainer as a minimum job requirement the applicant had to
have an in-depth knowledge of Post Office products and branch procedures,
including branch accounting.
Minimum requirements for new trainers were an active knowledge of all Post
Office transactions, as an ex-Crown Manager I also had knowledge of all office
procedures including the use of Horizon for internal stock unit transfers, office
remittances and accounting procedures for losses and gains within the branch.
Prior to training others to use the Horizon system, I had approximately 10
years’ experience as a Crown Branch Manager
When Horizon was introduced to the Crown network, all staff attended a one-
day face to face training event, which had a very hands-on syllabus. All staff
were trained on how to access the Horizon system, how to enter transactions
via the customer facing screens and how to balance an individual stock Unit
(SU) at the end of the balance period (BP). This included “rolling” the SU into
the next BP.
All Branch and Assistant Branch Managers also attended for a second half -day
to learn the office procedures and processes on Horizon, ie Maintaining Users,
allocating Stock Units, transfers between stock units, remittances to and from
the branch. Accounting processes shown included, end of week balancing
procedures, how to complete weekly balances for the full branch and how to
“rollover” the office accounts to the following balance period (BP) also how to
rollover the accounts at the end of each month accounting period, known as a
Cash Accounting Period (CAP).
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As a Crown manager I was using Horizon every day and acted as a 1st line
supervisory checker for staff who were unable to balance at the end of each
BP. I would also oversee or complete the office rollover procedures every
week.
I cannot recall receiving any additional training before I trained others to use
Horizon as my previous experience of (a) classroom training and (b) Branch
Manager role fulfilled all the requirements of the role.
I carried out training as a FTL from 2009 — 2013, I managed a team of trainers
and would occasionally cover classroom or on-site training due to a staffing
shortage, ie staff sickness.
{am unable to recall an exact number of courses that I delivered as I only
covered odd days as required
Any refresher training I received was conducted remotely.
I was never made aware of any bugs or defects with Horizon and my view was
that it was a robust system as all the accounting errors I came across as a
Crown manager were due to inputting errors by staff members.
My view of the robustness of the system didn’t change over time as the losses
attributed to Horizon only appeared to occur in Sub Post Offices, I am not
aware of any major losses in Crown offices, the Horizon equipment installed in
all branch types across the network was identical.
As FTL it was my role to update the team on any new products, processes or
procedures. These were primarily undertaken at Team Meetings which were
scheduled approx. every 6 weeks.
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During these events we would discuss any Horizon technical questions raised
by team members, there was no evidence to suggest a fault in Horizon as the
areas raised were caused by users not following correct procedures when
inputting data.
There were also National Training Events held for product launches
I cannot remember any specific feedback from delegates other than general
comments. The Horizon customer interface was designed to be user friendly
and once the initial introductory training session had been delivered, the
majority of trainees across all parts of the network became proficient in its use
within a short amount of time.
There was feedback from Subpostmasters that additional training on how to
investigate discrepancies would have been useful in the classroom. Trainers
would explain that Subpostmaster would have an on-site trainer for the 2 weeks
of go-live and balancing discrepancies and the use of Horizon logs would be
covered in a “live” situation.
It was not possible to amend the classroom training course to demonstrate
procedures for “rolling” over the accounts as the training equipment was setup
to ensure “live transactions” did not transmit to the Horizon servers, hence the
training equipment was not able to progress to the next accounting period.
This was a security feature to ensure events carried out in a training classroom
did not create false transactions in the live environment.
A trainer would be allocated to be on-site for the first 2 weeks off live operations
for a new Subpostmaster. The trainer would attend for the office opening hours
and would shadow the Subpostmaster and deliver additional training on “How
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to run a Post Office”. This training could be extended by the Field Team Leader
if the trainer felt the Subpostmaster was struggling after the 2 weeks. This was
often due to the Subpostmaster being unable to give their full attention as they
also had a new retail business to operate.
The allocation of trainers to classroom and on-site training events was
completed by the Network Scheduling Team based in Salford, then Bolton.
Using one schedule nationally ensured the most efficient use of training staff
resource.
All feedback was collated nationally and passed to the National and Area
Training Managers for inclusion in training reviews.
Numerous changes were made over the years, including refreshing the
timetable to ensure a clearer focus on office procedures alongside product
knowledge based training.
I supervised and trained trainers as their line manager during 2009-2013, and
2015-2016
The various teams I managed were dispersed as follows: 2009-2011-
supervised 12-15 trainers in South West Region, area covered from
Portsmouth up to Reading, across the M4 corridor to South Wales and down to
Cornwall and all areas in between.
2011 -2016 — area reduced to Hampshire & Berkshire due to Network Support
team resources increasing by over 100% for the Network Reinvention
Programme. Other areas of the South West training team were covered by 2
new FTL’s, Jane Rattue and Philip Andrews.
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As a Line manager for the Field Team I was responsible for the wellbeing of my
team alongside the ability to deliver high quality training to our customers, this
included setting team and personal goals.
1 monitored and measured individual performance to understand and deliver
refresher training for individuals as required to ensure the team delivered the
highest quality of training available to them. Monitoring took the format of
shadowing trainers when they were delivering classroom training and on-site
training at Sub Post Offices.
Informal and formal feedback was given at each event to the trainer. I cannot
recall any trainer failing in the delivery of the training, they were a dedicated,
hard working group of people who regularly went over and above their remit in
terms of additional hours on-site and being available to take phone calls from
Subpostmasters, sometimes for months after the training had concluded.
Several of the team forged strong working commitments with Subpostmasters,
leading to friendships outside of the work environment.
Feedback from the training was collated after every training event, both
classroom and on-site. There were general comments regarding the length of
the course in the classroom and the training environment.
Feedback from the on-site training was collated nationally, however I am
unable to recall any specific examples at this stage.
All feedback was shared with National and Area Training Mangers to
incorporate in training programme updates.
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I supported requests for additional on-site training for Subpostmasters who
were struggling at the start of their new role, usuaily allowing an additional on-
site trainer support for an additional week
Numerous changes to content as a result of feedback received, but no
extension to the amount of time dedicated to on-site training was ever
introduced except on an ad hoc basis if requested by the on-site trainer.
As stated above, the majority of Subpostmasters found the 2 weeks training to
be sufficient, however outside influences caused some to be distracted from
their training and I recall on several occasions agreeing to a one week
extension for the training.
The training programme(s:
General Overview of the training Programme
When I joined the training team in 2009 this was completed by The Network
Support National Training Manager and their Area Training Managers.
Following a reorganisation of the National Support Team, I am unsure of the
date, a National Security and Compliance Manager was appointed to oversee
all aspects of the training events offered by Network Support.
The training programme had strict timescales and structure, all trainers were
instructed to follow the training plan as prescribed.
The training programme remained in force during all my years within Network
Support (2009-2016)
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The training was offered to all new Crown Office staff, all newly appointed
Subpostmasters.
Subpostmasters were contracted to train their own staff
Classroom training would be undertaken at the start of their employment and
would be their introduction to working in a Post Office
How the training was delivered:
Classroom —
Pre technology was a 6 week course with 3 weeks in the classroom, weeks 4
& 5 ina “live “ branch with support from local staff and back to the classroom
for week 6.
Following the introduction of Horizon and the reduction on emphasis of
numeracy skills required to balance the branch, the training was reduced to 4
weeks.
This was reduced further to 2 weeks as the product range changed drastically
with the loss of many Government transactions, ie Pensions & benefits paid
into banks, TV Licences and Vehicle licensing moving to online.
The reduction in course attendance reflected the changing environment that the
business operated in, it did not lessen the quality of training provided as the
focus shifted towards additional support within the live working environment.
The majority of Subpostmasters were supportive of the reduced time required
away from their new business adventures.
There was a maximum was between 6 -8 trainees per class, dependant on the
physical size of the classroom.
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The vast majority of courses were full, however courses could be run with just 2
attendees if required, I recall at least one occasion where there was only 1
attendee.
The course content focusing on Horizon was as follows:
There was a session entitled An Introduction to Horizon, this was delivered in
the first 2 days and any subsequent transactional training would always be
completed using the Horizon accounting system
The course was very much a product knowledge-based course, with accounting
activities attached to each product session.
Horizon equipment identical to workstations in “live” branches was used to
process the financial part of the training transactions, exactly as it would be in
branch.
In branch accounting was completed every Weds, in order to replicate this
stock balancing was a 2-hour session held in the classroom on Weds.
In the classroom the trainees were shown the basics of running a transactional
log for identifying discrepancies, but this was very basic. Crown staff were
informed that Branch Managers would continue this training on-site,
Subpostmasters would receive additional support from on-site trainers in the
first 2 weeks of appointment.
Following the 2 week on-site training, a follow-up balance support was offered
to Subpostmasters with the trainer available to be contacted by phone to
discuss any balancing or operational issue. This was formally scheduled for the
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first week after the on-site training, however I have recollections of some
Subpostmasters using this facility for several months.
The Network Business Support Centre (NBSC) was the first port of call for
Subpostmasters. This was a telephone-based support function.
Additionally, they could contact their Contracts Advisor and request additional
on-site support / training.
Trainees had access to the full transactional logs created on Horizon.
The Horizon system is in my view, a digital double entry accounting system. For
every item sold, ie a 18 class stamp, the stock is reduced and the cash /
method of payment (MOP) increased, hence the system figures are always in a
state of balance.
In a transaction log, Subpostmasters could identify every transaction entered
via Horizon and this would include which MOP was used. The transaction log
would show the User, Stock Unit, and time of the event.
Subpostmasters also had access to Event logs. These identified procedural
events rather than transactional, ie times each user logged in or out of Horizon,
which stock unit they were attached to, which transactional mode was being
used, ie customer service, balancing, reversals.
For Subpostmasters, the opportunity to discuss Horizon accounting procedures
would take place during the 2 weeks on-site support from a trainer
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Changes to the initial classroom could be made to accommodate the mix of
attendees, ie if no Crown staff present additional focus would be spent on “how
to run a Post Office”, however I would say this was rare.
There was no formal testing of delegates understanding of Horizon, this was
undertaken on an observation basis by the on-site trainer who raised any
concems with the Contracts Advisor for that branch.
I believe the training programme was adequate, the vast majority of trainees
were competent in the use of Horizon, able to complete all tasks required for
their respective role within the branch.
Investigating the Horizon system for discrepancies was sufficient for the
majority of Postmasters, however additional support could be sought be those
struggling to identify specific discrepancies. Following the 2 week on-site
training, a follow-up balance support was offered to Subpostmasters with the
trainer available to be contacted by phone to discuss any balancing or
operational issue. This was formally scheduled for the first week after the on-
site training
Following this the Network Business Support Centre (NBSC) was the first port
of call for Subpostmasters. This was a telephone-based support function.
Additionally, they could contact their Contracts Advisor and request additional
on-site support / training.
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Subpostmasters could request additional training via the Contracts Advisor
(CA) if they felt they had specific additional training needs, ie transactional
knowledge or accounting support. These were actioned at the CA discretion
following discussions between the CA and the Subpostmaster.
Additional training was also offered if the on-site trainer felt it was necessary.
Crown Office staff received additional training from Branch Managers.
Advice and assistance
As FTL, one of my responsibilities was to conduct follow up meetings with new
Subpostmasters at the one month and three-month stages. These reviews
included a one-to-one discussion with the Subpostmaster regarding the
standard of training received and if they felt it had equipped them fully to runa
Post Office. There would also be a cash check undertaken at these visits.
In addition I would visit Subpostmasters by appointment as scheduled by the
Contracts Advisor to discuss discrepancies. This meeting would include
additional training and producing Horizon Transactional and Event logs and
how to interpret the data.
The initial contact by the Sub postmaster would have been a phonecall to the
NBSC who would escalate to the Contracts Manager.
An example of a visit: A Sub postmaster who was considered very good in his
role by the Contracts Advisor, was struggling to reconcile the cash figure for
his stock unit for the Automated Teller machine (ATM). Upon request I agreed a
date and time to visit so we could spend quality time looking at Horizon
transaction and event logs. I confirmed his understanding of the Horizon
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system by asking him to produce the logs, demonstrating he knew his way
around the reports.
We investigated the data together and identified an operational procedure that
he was not following correctly, which was causing him to compare cash levels
in the ATM on different days/times, hence they did not match. There were no
losses recorded against the branch for this issue, however he was reassured
that Horizon was working correctly once he understood the disparity in figures
he was incorrectly using. The on-site visit was completed in approximately 4
hours.
All issues raised were reported back to The Contracts Advisor
The only difficulties I encountered with Horizon, were primarily due to user
errors, ie incorrect accounting processes followed and, quite often, a reluctance
from Subpostmasters to seek assistance. Unfortunately there were too many
occasions whereby the Subpostmaster tried to “fix” discrepancies but actually,
by incorrect accounting, made the situation worse. However I am unable to
offer any specific examples at this time.
My personal view of the support offered to Subpostmasters was that having just
a telephone support in NBSC was not sufficient, there should have been a
dedicated team of “Problem Busters” available to support at short notice. This
would have been a team of dedicated trainers available at short notice to make
on-site visits to branches were accounting issues were occurring. This would
have been a quick response system which would have ensured any errors
made would not escalate out of hand, ensuring repeated incorrect procedures
did not complicate the outcome further.
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This was suggested on numerous occasions, although I cannot recall specific
dates, but did not fit in with the structure designed for Network Support by
senior managers as it was considered too resource heavy and an inefficient
use of staffing resources.
2011 Training review
Feedback was collated from all trainers and shared by FTL’s at the training
review meeting. Primary drive for the review was a change in emphasis within
POL for a more sales-driven culture within branches and the need to improve
product sales to create additional income for Subpostmasters.
There was a suggestion from my team to amend the timing of the Cash
Management session, as they felt it could be covered much better on site as
the classroom only had a minimal amount of “dummy” cash in each stock and
did not prepare some Subpostmasters for the vast amounts of cash they would
be dealing with. This suggestion was not adopted by senior Managers.
The course was very much focused on product transactional knowledge with
little focus on “how to run a Post Office branch.”
In my view the one size fits all policy ensured a consistent level of training
delivered to all newcomers within the business, irrespective of the type of
branch they were due to work in.
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98. Personally, I don’t feel this had any detrimental effect on Subpostmasters ability
to run a branch as this aspect of their role was covered by the on-site training
which occurred straight after the classroom attendance.
99. Stock balancing in the classroom consisted of just 2 powerpoint slides as this
was a practical session requiring the trainees to balance the small tills within
the classroom. I fed into the training review that the delegates were not given
enough information to understand all the acronyms and terminologies used
within POL. As a result, 2 new powerpoint slides were added to explain
balancing terminology and also how to account for discrepancies (Gains &
Losses). These improvements along with the provision of handouts for the .
delegates, was sufficient to overcome the initial training shortfall.
100. Further in-depth training for office accounting, ie transactions corrections and
Rems, was delivered in the 2 week on-site training
101. In later times, around 2012, if memory serves me correctly, as the business
moved forward with its Network Reinvention Programme, the transactional
base for Post Offices had changed greatly. Unlike previous years whereby a
Subpostmaster was guaranteed a constant customer footfall due to the nature
of the business, this had been eroded and the tide swung whereby they would
need a strong retail to offer to support the costs of running a branch. The
course contented was changed to give a greater emphasis to a new sales
culture.
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102. Personally, I felt the emphasis of the course, and the business as a whole had
become too sales orientated and not enough focus was on cash discrepancies
within branches. My view was “What was the point of generating smail levels of
income from selling a Travel Insurance product, if losses were occurring
elsewhere in branch due to a lack of focus on procedural areas such as stock
and cash contro! measures”. I stress this my view and not that of the senior
management team who were striving to keep branches afloat by generating
new income streams.
103. Further feedback from my team was that Day 1 of the classroom training was
overloaded with content, and I agreed that there was not enough time in day 1
to welcome the delegates, make them feel comfortable and engaged before
heading into the training content. Some transactional sessions could have been
moved to a different day, however the training timetable was very tight for the
full 2 weeks,
Review of training in December 2013
104. There was a 1-day course that had been put together for introducing non-
frontline POL mangers to working on the counter as cover for emergency
situations and was intended as an operational contingency only, ie industrial
action. The one-day course was not devised for Subpostmasters or their staff.
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Changes to training in 2015
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As more offices and new entrants began using iT at home, a review was
undertaken to produce an online training facility for new entrants which would
greatly reduce or even remove the necessity to attend a formal classroom
event. The online training was designed to be used by Subpostmasters before
attending a shortened course, with the added benefit they could delegate to
any staff they wanted to train, something that was not available before.
Bugs, errors and defects
I always operated on the statement received from Fujitsu that Horizon was “the
2"4 most secure system in Europe”. I personally was never aware of any issue
or problems with Horizon.
All of my dealings with Subpostmasters and staff were based on Horizon being
a robust accounting system.
In response to a direct question regarding a problem raised in PinICL, I have no
recollection of this specific event, however I vaguely remember the Horizon
system would not “rollover” from one BP or TP to the next one if there were
outstanding transfers between Stock Units (SU). The reason being if a transfer
had not been accepted, the incoming SU would be showing a false cash on
hand figure.
I recognise the name of the caller as a Branch Manager in a Crown Office
Other appendices sent to me appears to be in (1) a call log involving the NBSC,
and in (2) a call log involving the NBSC and Fujitsu engineers. I have no
recollection of these cases and I am certain I had no involvement in either case.
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Resolution of disputes
111. I was not involved with any disputes between Post Office and Subposimasters
regarding any alleged shortfalls, this was undertaken by the Contracts Advisor
STATEMENT OF TRUTH
I believe the content of this statement to be true
Signed...... I GRO I
Dated. CA Doce bel Io3
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